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Oh, and thank you, ixion and bigbadm! I've always loved the idea of a "law of parsimony" (Occam's razor), perhaps because I'm cheap.

I'm with aristo on the ghost anagrams, and I think that some people (no names, no packdrill) need to take a closer look at their definitions...

Hi toots... I am really showing my ignorance here...but what do you mean by a ghost anagram?

I really am a novice at this and am a bit intimidated by the rules , which I don't understand....

Please explain...if you want...

P@

The letters that make up the anagram (the fodder) should appear in the actual clue, not in another word that you have to guess. In the clue aristo mentioned, the letters needed were MOINS, but the clue referred to 'less French'. Also, (incidentally) the anagram indicator (or anagrind) should always appear directly before or after the fodder.

Thank you for that...will wait untill the brandy has worn off and simulate...or try to.

I know I play the fool...but I do what to learn...thanks bully x

No problem p@ -- I'm aware that if we get too serious about these things we're likely to be met with a chorus of 'It's only meant to be a bit of fun', but if no one says anything then the folks like you who want to learn never will. To be fair, your anagram worked perfectly, and your definition was (correctly) a noun. I'll make no comment on the presence of Julian & Sandy...

I think they're officially called indirect anagrams, pastille; I call them ghost anagrams. A simple example is "Frantic bird is split (4)", the answer being rent (from tern)- though how could you really know? I feel that for any anagram the actual letters should be available within the clue as opposed to having to be intuited, and that a clue that doesn't include the actual letters is far easier for the setter to construct than for the puzzle-doer to solve. With a simple clue like the one above it perhaps seems a petty objection, but you can see the problems that might arise in other instances. It's further complicated when SOME of the necessary letters are present and the others have to be guessed at, which is the way rambler's clue is constructed.

Sorry, Bullfrog, missed your explanation while typing.

Thanks you two...

X

Thanks very much for you comments. I agree with aristo about ghost anagrams but this one was not one of those in that 'moins' did not have to be guessed but it did have to be translated which is easily done online. We often use 'the French' for 'le' and bbm2 used 'my French' for 'mon', but not as part of his anagram.

The anagram indicator did appear immediately in front of 'pray less French' so I would have thought it was correct.

Again, thanks for your input.