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cockie

31st August 2015, 18:36
This is a real Shackleton stinker - nothing wrong with that, of course - and it's no surprise that there isn't a thread yet. I've filled the grid - just - and I think I know what's going on with the DOWN message (arcane, or what!). But I need only 3 of the clashes to complete that message. Which means that 2 are needed in the ACROSS message. Is this right? And if so they must occur in the last 2 words of that message.
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phil535

1st September 2015, 21:55
Sounds right to me - I am really struggling with the bottom right corner - I have identified two of the clashes but cannot figure out how to determine which letter is the loser in the clash. Any suggestions gratefully received.
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maryf

2nd September 2015, 03:19
I too have a full grid. I agree cockie that two letters are needed for the across message. I have no idea about the down message and am currently baffled.
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cockie

2nd September 2015, 08:52
Without giving the game away (or the bit of the game I've uncovered), here goes. The DOWN letters comprise 5 entities (corresponding to what has to be put in the first 5 cells at the top). Some have to have an extra clash-sourced letter inserted - shown as 5+1 in the first entity. The whole list is 5+1, 6+1, 3, 3, 9+1 (two words). These entities have something (very arcane!) in common. My problem is the ACROSS where I can't see where the 2 other clash-sourced letters go. I have a clear instruction (well, mostly clear) 5, 3, 3, 8, 6. If the 6 word is correct then it refers to a wholly different culture from that of the DOWNS, and that's where my problem lies. I'm fairly sure that the extra 2 letters go in the 8, 6 part but persistent starting hasn't shown where.
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crackabilly

2nd September 2015, 10:49
Haven't got as far as you guys - about a quarter of a grid full and one clash identified.
Would appreciate some hints with the following to re-kick start my efforts:
37a My immature offspring sling out empties behind island hotel (6, two words) LO???H
22a Eyesore around bay? Description of people basking perhaps? (7) Y??????
15a Someone who frets about me wearing a musk? (8) ??????E?
1d Sun article included in stock of column fillers (7)
21d Rent timeshare bedding when there is no bedding (9) ???A?????
39a Take water fall behind back of old lake (7) ?????A?

(typo in all def.s) many thanks
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phil535

2nd September 2015, 11:57
22a ends with a Y but does not start with one. The letter to change is in the last word.
15a definition is the first three words with the letter change in the third word.
1d definition is the last three words with the change in the last word.
21d anagram of timeshare. Change letter is the first letter of the last word.
I have not got 37a or 39a but can confirm your letters.
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cockie

2nd September 2015, 12:03
37A has a clash in the first letter; the def is the first 4 words with a misprint in the 4th. 39A def is last 3 words with a misprint in the last.

Even knowing where the rectangle is (and it and the square are symmetrical about the central column) doesn't seem to help. The initial letters of words starting in the rectangle don't seem to deliver a message. Oh dear.
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crackabilly

2nd September 2015, 12:09
Thanks Phil535 & Cockie
I'll work through these
Toughest one for quite some weeks
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crimbo

2nd September 2015, 12:44
Cockie, I may be being slow here but I'm confused about what is meant by a clash. For instance, in trying to work out 37a, I know that the first letter is L. But why do you say this is a clash? And I can't get 28d which seems to be I?P?? so any help on that too would be appreciated.
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cockie

2nd September 2015, 12:51
Because the first letter of 37A is NOT an L - it clashes with the L you have correctly found from 33D (which contains 2 clashes)
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